CX1 review and comments (comming soon)

[odklizec]

Yesterday, I got good news that the CX1 sample is on the way to me! I should receive it today or early next week. I will immediatelly start with comments and head-to-head comparisons. Stay tuned!

EDIT:
The camera arrived and I'm now charging the battery. I already started it for a few moments and I have to say that the LCD is really gorgeous!

EDIT2:
It's DAMNED fast! I really wish to have 4fps or even faster in next GRD! It's really great feature and I really hope there will be something like that in all Ricoh cameras and even in RAW mode!

 

[odklizec]

Hi folks,
During the weekend, I somehow managed to make a decent ISO comparison. Sorry folks, no crops yet. It's time consuming and my laptop is actually playing a silly game called "I'm too tired to even think about loading full resolution photos".

So if you are interested, you can find some full resolution files here:
CX1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7597032@N0 ... 794550190/

R10
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7597032@N0 ... 794720918/

R7
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7597032@N0 ... 708736981/

Files with description c0_s0_d0 are photos taken with default camera settings. However, photos taken with these settings looks ugly so it's better to compare these with customized contrast, sharpness and color depth.
There are no detailed settings for B&W photos in R/CX cameras so their default settings should be more or less the same.
Unfortuantely, there are no R7 ISO64 and ISO100 files, as they ended somehow blurry (my mistake).

 

[thelps]

It's DAMNED fast! I really wish to have 4fps or even faster in next GRD!

Pavel, when you say fast, do you mean to operate the camera? What is the power up time and shutter lag response like? :?:

 

[odklizec]

The camera is not only fast in continuous mode but also the focusing speed is greatly improved! It's so fast that it even outperform GRDI with its phase detection AF! Unfortunately, I don't have any R with phase detection AF so I cannot compare CX1 speed with these old and fast R cameras, which were claimed to be fast AF hunters with unnoticeable shutter lags.

I will try to take an video or measure the AF time somehow, but I can tell you this. While R10 focus is like "bzzzzzt", CX1 is like "bzzt". There is still small LCD freeze so hated by many of us (hi Cris! ). But it's so short it's unnoticeable. It's really fast like hell.

 

[VladimirV]

I will try to take an video or measure the AF time somehow, but I can tell you this. While R10 focus is like "bzzzzzt", CX1 is like "bzzt". There is still small LCD freeze so hated by many of us (hi Cris! ). But it's so short it's unnoticeable. It's really fast like hell.

This is very good news Pavel, focus speed is together with the JPG engine the biggest area where recent Ricoh cameras got worse with every new model. Glad to hear it is improved. As for the LCD freeze, if it's like on the Canon G10 it certainly is not a major problem although I would prefer if they could fix this again by using phase detection sensors.

Looking forward to your further tests, I should get my review sample in the next weeks and will put it through it's paces then.

 

[odklizec]

Hi folks,

If you are interested how fast is the CX1 AF, here is a small example. Just listen the attached recordings...

CX1:


R10:


Both cameras were focused to the same spot with Spot AF (in dimly lit room with ISO200 and shutter speed about 1/13). Each recording contains 5 AF attempts. The speed of AF decreases only if the shutter speed drops under 1/5sec, in other words, under very bad lightning conditions). But it's still faster than R10 AF. And the speed of Macro focus is improved too. I would say that CX1 in Macro mode is only a tiny bit slower than the R10 in normal AF mode.

But it's not only the AF speed what's improved! It seems that the CX1 AF reliability (its ability to lock the focus) is greatly improved too! Where R10 hunts for focus, CX1 lock AF on a first try!

PS: I'm sorry for rather lousy recordings with recoded background noise. For lack of better options, both recordings were done with mobile phone

I really see the significant AF improvement over the previous R cameras without phase detection AF. I will repeat this AF test with GRDI but from what I saw, the current implementation of CX1 contrast detection clearly beats the GRDI phase detection AF. I think that part of this major speed improvement lies in new CMOS sensor. I'm now really curious if a similar (but larger) sensor will be implemented in GRDIII or GX300?

EDIT:
Here is a direct comparison of CX1, GRDI, GRDII and GX200 AF speeds. All cameras were pointed on the same spot (daylight scene with shutter speed about 1/200 or so).
Here is a graphical representation of what you can hear below...


And here is the audio...

As you can see and hear, the CX1 is fastest in all parts of AF procedure. I think the middle part of each AF attempt is related to movement of the camera focus mechanism. While CX1 requires about 116msecs to move the lens parts, GRDI does the same in about 280ms. I think it's pretty obvious that CX1 is very fast.

 

[tommy]

From R6 and onwards AF has been more or less useless in many situations, so this "improved" AF is certainly more than welcome. When I switched from R5 to R6 I learned to live without AF, but I also joyfully "unlearned" to live without flash. If my R6 break and I buy a CX1 maybe I can "unlearn" to live without AF. (Although I am leaning towards a GRDn now, GX is unfortunately not pocketable enough for me.)

 

[Prognathous]

The CX1 sounds like a great camera. If only there was a way to shoot RAW or at least to turn off NR and sharpening completely I would have considered buying one myself.

BTW, is there any improvement in the movie mode? This is becoming an exceedingly important factor in this market segment.

Prog.

 

[ooccoo]

It might be a little early to ask this since you just received the camera and have begun tinkering with it, I would like to impose upon you some questions if you don't mind. I am in need of a new camera, and for some reason the Ricoh brand seems to be bekoning me to give their line a try. I've only owned two cameras a Leica film camera and a digital Canon Powershot. I loved my Canon at first and thought they could do no wrong, but as the novelty of the unit wore off, its flaws became overwhelming. Now I hardly use it, and I love taking pictures. Given that Canon seems not to care about innovation for fixing what's broken in their design scheme, I've blown them off so to speak. While I've heard many negative things about Ricoh cameras (image noice, mostly), I still can't help but be intrigued by the brand. Perhaps due to Ricoh being such a rarity where I am (US), I don't know.

Anyway, I was a follower of the R10, but reviews were rather harsh towards it (save for Stevesdigicams.com review) and I gave up my quest for getting a new camera once again. A Panasonic camera I liked released, but I can't get past their terrible menu system (silly reason for dismissing them, maybe) from what I've seen of it and experienced second hand. Now the Ricoh CX1 is upon us and I'm quite interested. However, reviews are again, mixed. Once sight, loved it (Photographyblog.com I think) and once site not so much (Cnet.com UK). I know it's early, but reviews on Ricoh cameras don't seem as plentiful as those of other brands. Which brings me here, hasseling you fine people.

What I want in a camera is one that is compact (as I won't use it unless it's small and nimble), yet without comprimising image quality. I want a camera that takes pictures as the naked eye sees things. A tall order for a point and shoot, but that's what I'm after - or at least close to it. My old Leica did very well at that task, I might add. I want detailed shots bursting with color. I mainly take indoor people pictures and nature shots. Nothing terrible planned, but I do seek accuracy and great color.

Do you think the CX1 is suited for what I have terribly described? I know it sounds like I am asking a lot of a modestly priced point and shoot, but I can't help it. Any thoughts at all would be appreciate it, but of course not expected. After all, I'm posting an odd mix of questions and whatnot in a thread that isn't my own. So, my apologies.

 

[Prognathous]

I loved my Canon at first and thought they could do no wrong, but as the novelty of the unit wore off, its flaws became overwhelming.

Can you explain what was it specifically that you found flawed in the Canon? It might be solvable with CHDK.

What I want in a camera is one that is compact (as I won't use it unless it's small and nimble), yet without comprimising image quality. I want a camera that takes pictures as the naked eye sees things. A tall order for a point and shoot, but that's what I'm after - or at least close to it. My old Leica did very well at that task, I might add. I want detailed shots bursting with color.

The image quality you're looking for is more in line with what you can get with a DSLR (or a non-DSLR with an APS-C / FourThirds sensor).

I mainly take indoor people pictures and nature shots. Nothing terrible planned, but I do seek accuracy and great color.

To get good indoor shots of people you'll need to use the ambient light or an external flash with a head that swivels and tilts (allowing for bouncing light off the ceiling or a wall). Neither is practical with eh CX1. With this camera (and its direct competition - the Pansonic TZ7 and Canon SX200) you'll need to use direct flash, which by definition causes ugly and artificial looking pictures. The Fuji F200EXR will be more practical for ambient light shots (using high ISO), but it will not, by any means, be brilliant - at best it will be "usable".

Do you think the CX1 is suited for what I have terribly described?

I don't think that any small-sensor camera fits the bill, let alone one with a 1/2.3" sensor. If you don't want to compromise image quality (specifically indoors) and if you need the compact size, then you might want to wait for Olympus to release their MicroFourThirds compact later this year.

Prog.

 

[odklizec]

Hello ooccoo and welcome here! The CX1 is definitely a big improvement over R10 and previous R cameras. But I agree with Prog. Unfortuantely, the CX1 JPEG quality is still not enough to even think about competition with some big names. Yes, the images are less noisy and less smeared than R10, which I think is mainly because of lower noise level of newly used CMOS sensor. There were done also some nice tweaks in JPEG processing engine, so the images are no longer oversharpened as it was in previous models. However, the noise reduction is still too strong and kills many fine details even in low ISO photos. RAW mode, or at least the Noise Reduction OFF switch in JPEG mode would help a lot.

I understand Ricoh's product segmentation, with enabled RAW only in advanced models. But I think that they should at least allow to turn the noise reduction OFF in JPEG. People should have an option to disable in-camera noise reduction and be able to process the noise in their favorite way. Many people (including me) actually like the grain in photos and the only thing they clean or suppress is chromatic (color) noise. This kind of noise can be very effectively suppressed in many noise removal tools and image editors. In my opinion, these specialized programs do much better job than any in-camera solution.

If you are looking for a small (pocketable) compact camera with good menu system and good image quality (in RAW) then I would suggest you to check GRDII or wait for GRDIII (late this year...most probbably around August-September). But as mentioned many times before, GRDII JPEG is lousy and you will have to use RAW to unleash the true power of its non-zoom lens. But it's really worth the effort.

 

[ooccoo]

Prognathous:

Wow. Thanks so much for breaking apart my jumbled mess and taking the time to thoughtfully respond. I really do appreaciate it!

I had a bad feeling you'd say some of things you said, however! I knew it was a fruitless thought of mine to think a point and shoot compact camera such as the CX1 could be all that I hoped it to be. Oh well. At least you were there to set me straight. I needed to hear it. Sadly, though, I just don't think I can get a DSLR camera and take as many pictures with it as I would a compact camera. While idealy I'd like to have both a compact and a professional DSLR camera, my pockets aren't over flowing with cash. But, that's my problem, not Ricoh's fault. I just hoped the CX1 would be as close to what I wanted as feasibly possible, but it doesn't sound like such is the case.

As for my Canon... I really loved it at first, as it does take some very rich, well saturated photos, but the corner softness and lack of fine detail in contrast to whites and whatnot is something I just can't get past any more. I know I can crop the soft corners out and do somethings here and there via post-processing. But I want a camera that can take shots as I see them without the need of extra work. That may sound lazy, but I know it's possible and I don't like the idea that as long as we've been in the digital age that imperfections such as these in compacts still exist. That's why I think Canon doesn't care anymore. Not about the consumer or about evolving. They know they can churn out compact after compact without fixing anything reviewers complained about in previous models. The only thing they boost are the mege pixels. I think we can call it quits at 12-14 now, Canon!

I searched and searched for a compact / semi-compact APS-C camera or the like, and came up empty handed. I guess I'm just going to have to find the best compromise. But enough of my issues.

Thanks to you again for your help and assistance.

odklizec:

Thanks for the warm welcome and for your honest feedback. I'm certainly grateful. Sorry again for hijacking your thread! It wasn't my intention. I just didn't see it necessary to flood the board with a newbie message such as mine.

Anyway... You're probably right about the CX1 not being exactly what I'm after. I guess I was just being too hopeful. I'm sure the CX1 is still a great camera with a hearty feature set, but still not all that I guess I'm looking for in a compact camera. I'll definitely keep a watchful eye on the GRDIII, however. I didn't even know it was coming out this year. Though, I'm not sure how much longer I can wait - as I'm quite anxious for a new camera. Yet with my coming up empty handed at every turn, I may still be actively looking when Ricoh updates its lineup later this year. As I said earlier, I like the Ricoh brand for whatever reason (I've never owned or tested anything of theirs), it's just this feeling I have, so I would like the opportunity to give them a chance at some point.

Well, thanks again to you for your feedback. I hope you're enoying your time with the CX1. New gadgets are always fun to tinker with! That, and getting a new camera always sparks intense interest in photo taking. Best wishes.

 

[odklizec]

I updated the post with AF speed test. There is now added visualization of CX1, GRDI, GRDII and GX200 AF sound and audio track with all four AF tests.
viewtopic.php?p=9459#p9459

 

[Gil]

Thanks for posting those Pavel. Looks like it could be an interesting and nice camera.
Gil